A recent Greek fragment discovery has brought an old issue back into focus.
You may have seen in the news recently that a fragment of the "oldest NT manuscript" was found to say in Revelation 13:18 that the number of the beast was 616 instead of 666. Since several people have asked me about this topic, I'd like to comment on it.
Report: 616, Not 666 The Real Number of the Beast
First, here's an excerpt of the report of the discovery:
A newly discovered fragment of the oldest surviving copy of the New Testament indicates that, as far as the Antichrist goes, theologians, scholars, heavy metal groups, and television evangelists have got the wrong number. Instead of 666, it's actually the far less ominous 616.
The new fragment from the Book of Revelation, written in ancient Greek and dating from the late third century, is part of a hoard of previously unintelligible manuscripts discovered in historic dumps outside Oxyrhynchus in Egypt. Now a team of expert classicists, using new photographic techniques, are finally deciphering the original writing.
Professor David Parker, Professor of New Testament Textual Criticism and Paleography at the University of Birmingham, thinks that 616, although less memorable than 666, is the original. He said: "This is an example of gematria, where numbers are based on the numerical values of letters in people's names. Early Christians would use numbers to hide the identity of people who they were attacking: 616 refers to the Emperor Caligula."
The Book of Revelation is traditionally considered to be written by John, a disciple of Jesus; it identifies 666 as the mark of the Antichrist. In America, the fundamentalist Christian right often use the number in sermons about the coming Apocalypse.
They and satanists responded coolly to the new "Revelation". Peter Gilmore, High Priest of the Church of Satan, based in New York, said: "By using 666 we're using something that the Christians fear. Mind you, if they do switch to 616 being the number of the beast then we'll start using that."
Don't Write 616 over 666 In Your Bible Just Yet!
So, if you did not know better, you might already be heading to your Bible with a red marker to cross out the 666 and write in 616. After all, we have a textual critic of the New Testament telling us 666 is wrong. But not so fast!
I have a few reasons to keep this one on the shelf, and even to doubt it. Note that none of these are proofs that 616 is wrong. They are just my thinking on why I believe 666 is correct still at this point.
Reasons To Still Prefer 666 over 616
1. The article cites just one man's conclusion. But I'm the type of person who likes to check things out for himself, rather than trust someone else to do my thinking. I want to see the data and reasoning he used to conclude 616 is correct, even though it's in the minority of manuscripts. For example, when I decided that Yehovah was probably the correct transliteration for God's name in the Old Testament, I did not do so because Nehemia Gordon said so. I did so after looking through the Old Testament manuscripts myself, looking at the vowel points and carefully reasoning out what they likely were telling us were the original vowels. Until I see the proof myself for 616, I'm not likely to switch from 666 based on one man's opinion.
2. One thing that would settle this question would be if a man appeared on the scene fulfilling everything else for the "First Beast from the Sea" in Revelation 13 and other prophecies related to what is (erroneously) called "the Antichrist". If we "calculated" the "number of his name" as instructed and it came to either 616 or 666 we would have our answer. There is such a man. Prince Charles of Wales' heraldic achievement (coat-of-arms) literally consists of the very beasts described in Rev 13 and Dan 7, he is a prince (Dan 9:27) and he is from the old Roman Empire that destroyed the Temple (Dan 9:27). So what does his name add up to? Rather than 616, his name adds up to 666 using the ancient gematria system. And not only does this work in the English, but also in the official Hebrew transliteration (Nasich Charles Mem Wales). What are the odds anyone would have a name that calculates to the same number in two languages (without tampering with the transliteration like is done to Javier Solana's name to make it equal 666 in Hebrew)?
3. The Book of Revelation introduces very little that is new and tends to mostly expand on concepts or symbols that have already been used elsewhere in the Bible. You must use the rest of the Bible to decipher much of Revelation. It is noteworthy therefore that 616 appears nowhere else in the Bible while 666 appears four times. It very interestingly appears in this verse related to another exalted and adored king, one whom no doubt the coming Antichrist will want to emulate in many ways.
1 Kings 10:14 -- The weight of the gold that Solomon received yearly was 666 talents,
If anyone gets a good textual criticism report on 616 vs 666 please let me know as I'd like to get to see why someone would conclude 616 is the original.
4. Irenaeus in the second century, a century before the manuscript Parker relies on, already knew of the 616 variation and discounted it as an error:
Such, then, being the state of the case, and this number being found in all the most approved and ancient copies [of the Apocalypse], and those men who saw John face to face bearing their testimony [to it]; while reason also leads us to conclude that the number of the name of the beast, [if reckoned] according to the Greek mode of calculation by the [value of] the letters contained in it, will amount to six hundred and sixty and six; that is, the number of tens shall be equal to that of the hundreds, and the number of hundreds equal to that of the units (for that number which [expresses] the digit six being adhered to throughout, indicates the recapitulations of that apostasy, taken in its full extent, which occurred at the beginning, during the intermediate periods, and which shall take place at the end), - I do not know how it is that some have erred following the ordinary mode of speech, and have vitiated the middle number in the name, deducting the amount of fifty from it, so that instead of six decads they will have it that there is but one. [I am inclined to think that this occurred through the fault of the copyists, as is wont to happen, since numbers also are expressed by letters; so that the Greek letter which expresses the number sixty was easily expanded into the letter Iota of the Greeks.] - Adv. haer. 5.30
In this rather obscurely expressed passage, Irenaeus was proposing (even in the second century - a century BEFORE this oldest surviving copy!) that old, Greek copies of Revelation contained an error of copying in which the Greek letter xi with gematraic value 60 was wrongly copied into the Greek letter iota with number value 10.
Meanwhile, I hope this helps you keep this one on the shelf as well.
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34comments
P. 115, Papyrus 115, is the definitive Ancient Greek fragment of 616 in Greek Letters/Numerals of the letters for Nero described as The Beast because of the mere story he fiddled while Rome burned, and, Hebrews add n, nun, number value 50, to names of the last letter “o” (616 becomes 666). The Alpha and Omega, the First and Last, the Morning Star and the Evening Star… visible at 6:16 am and 6:16 pm! Clocks as we know time keeping were already in use during those same Ancient Times.
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616 gematria is the name of Barak Hussain obama
666 Rayel is God….they lied and you will all see first hand….seek Yeshua
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Another interesting thing, prince Charles and William both line up but only one lines up with both 666vs616. There will be the seventh and the seventh will be the eighth… they have the same name, both Prince Charles, which could fall in line with death and resurrection, since if the first one dies another one,same name, takes over. And to my understanding, W never used to exist, just V . So COVID-19 could be saying something there as well, Charles of W(V)ales is devil-
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Abram was born 1948 years after creation (1948 AM).
‘AM’ means: Anno Mundi.
Anno Mundi is Latin for “in the year of the world” or so to speak: Year After Creation.
The -one sided- covenant God made with Abram (80) happened 2028 AM.
The end of the Dome of the Rock can be expected the first year of the 7-year tribulation period, 9 x 666 years after man sinned, 6024 AM.
That moment in time also will come 6024 minus 2028 = 3996 years after the covenant I just mentioned.
And ….. not by chance, 3996 equals 6 times 666 !!!
Shalom!
Cees.
The ‘Dome of the Rock’ was established, 7 x 666 years, after man sinned (30 years after creation).
And during the first year of the 70th week (late Sept/early Oct. 2020 up to late Sept/early Oct 2021 , 9 x 666 years after man sinned, its finished with that building.
‘666’ stands for Islam.
‘9’ stands symbolic for ‘Final’, ‘End’, ‘Schluß’ (German), ‘Fin’ (Fr.).
For instance, the word ‘Amen’ at the end (!) of a prayer, has a value of 99.
Jesus died in the ninth hour: it was finished!
And there are so many more examples of this symbolic meaning of the number 9.
Recently discovered?
Oxford University Theology has it down as 616 and was what was taught in 1990.
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Jason, sure but in 2005 a new fragment was “recently discovered” reinforcing the 616 idea reading. New NT mss. are always coming to light.
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616 is most likely correct. It’s the number of years from Jesus birth (probably 5 BC or 6 BC) to start of Islam (year 610 AD).
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I’m just a nobody but why cant it be as simple as stated 660 and 6. 660 6 or 6606 thanks
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Chapter and verse numbers didn’t exist when the bible was written
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One day I sat down and read Revelation 13:18,…….then I took the time to comprehend it’s meaning. Simple as that seems, I have to ask; has anyone ever really understood what we’re being told in that text? I was shocked to find that I had a difficult time comprehending it such that it satisfied me. Shocked because it has always been considered a given, an open and shut case. The text says that 666 is the number of the beast,…………right?
I have to disagree with the world and all of history on this subject. That puts me against many billions of people, save for one or two here and there. Why do I disagree? Read Revelation 13:18 for yourself. ( I sincerely hope that if I’m wrong about this, someone will have the knowledge to set me straight. I must warn you however,……….I won’t accept any explanation that is contrary to the words written )
According to my comprehension of Revelation 13:18,…..666 is the only number which is excluded from being the number of the beast. All other numbers remain a possibility,……in my opinion, but the text indicates that 666 is eliminated as a possibility.
The fact is, if 666 is the number of the beast as most believe,………..then maybe someone can explain why wisdom, understanding and a calculation are needed to discern a number that’s provided? Some have said that 666 is used in the calculation with another number. According to that logic, we should use the number of the beast in a calculation with another number,….to find the number of the beast? No, I don’t think that makes sense.
No matter how you look at it, if a number is given, and that number is the number of the beast,…then only basic reading skills are needed. I invite anyone and everyone,….please, show me the error in my thinking,….. if you can.
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Hi Mark
Revelations 13:18 is a code within itself and a clue for a way of calculating the “Man”
of which the God of the Bible is referencing.
Rev 13:18 not only holds the universal year, but the personal day of the “Man”in question. His whole family and his faith.
When you times 13 by 18 you get 234 if you mirror image 234 you get 432 when you add theses numbers individually together you get 18, when you add 234+432= 666 is the total sum.
With the correct tools the the Bible can be decoded relatively easily, never the less most inclusive of myself look outside of themselves for Biblical answers when we are told by many sources to look within for answers.
The “Man” in revelations 13:18 is the most important individual in the whole Bible solely because he is the one that the Author of the Bible wishes to put in his place. The one that the GOD of the Bj le hates and the one that apparently is the cause of all the ills of this world.
So although you believe that the calculations should be basic and self evident, you will see that the Bible is not basic and self evident in its creation, exactly like the world we live in, which I might add is Satan’s World, and the “Man” in revelations 13:18 according to the Author is Satan himself.
This can be further corroborated in the Great Seal of the American Dollar found in the Roman numerals
MDCCLXXVI of which when cyphered reveals Rev 13:18 and all that I have mentioned above..
To decipher MDCCLXXVI, add the numbers:
1000 + 500 + 100 + 100 + 50 + 10 + 10 + 5 + 1 = 1776
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I am looking at this now… as we have been given the Rev 12 sign and it is literally occurring in the Heavens on 919.. so you know as they say that God’s perspective is a mirrored image.. mirroring the sign of the birth of the child which will occur on 9/19/2023 or 919, we get the mirrored version of 616.
AS above so below.. 616 represents below- MAN also is the day before Christs REAL birthday which is June 17. This was the end of Satans rule once Jesus was born- our Messiah.
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The early Church understood the Beast to be Nero and anticipated his return from a fatal wound. Thus to Latin readers Nero Caesar added to 666. To those who only understood Greek it added to 616. One possible explanation is that the fatal wound being healed occurred around 1100 when Innocent III revived pagan Rome in the form of Catholicism. It was he who placed the Latin term “Vicar of the Son of God” (adding t 666) on the papal helmet and who instigated the Inquisition and the harshest of the crusades.
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As I understand it, THE ANTI-CHRIST will have no regard (respect) for women. In the head (or because he is The Head) He receives a wound which, in Hebrew, means a judicial punishment that he survives. Also, his number 666 is to be calculated. If the number 666 is multiplied by three, for obvious reasons, the product is 1998—the year President Bill Clinton was impeached, receiving a judicial wound which He survived! COINCIDENCE OR PROPHECY!
J.D. Abreo
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FYI. Yehovah is not the name of God in the original Hebrew texts of the old testament. It is actually YHWY. There is not Hebrew word Yehovah or Jehovah. The Hebrew language did not originally have vowels in written form. The written vowels were added later. When they were added the Hebrew vowels for Adonai (Lord in Hebrew) were used when being added to the name of God YHWY instead to remind the reader to not read the name YHWY out loud. They did this so as to not lead the reader to unwittingly take the Lord’s name in vain breaking the 2nd commandment. Thus YHWY was written to appear to read YaHoWaY. The reader was not intended to make this a completely new word but to simply read it as Adonai. It was early German scholars that began to mistakenly claim the name was to be Yehovah. The V came into the mix because those German scholars pronounce a W like we in the US pronounce a V, thus the Yehovah Or Jehovah.
Just putting that out there since you seemed to have made a reasonable effort in establishing the name of God as Yehovah. I assume that you were not aware that it was a made up word by some well intentioned but mistaken German scholars 2 centuries ago.
Quin, your information on God’s name is not up to date with the latest scholarship.
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Well said! Its important to note though Yhvh from the Old Testament is not God Most High, and is not the Father of Jesus. Yhvh was simply given permission by El ELYon(Deut 32:8), the Most High, to rule over Jacobs offspring/Israel (Deut 32:9) and later given permission to rule over all nations(Psalms 82:8). Thus Yhvh/Haelel/Enlil was basically given permission to be “the god of this world”. Satan also confirmed in Luk 4:5-6 that worldly authority was given to him. Yhvh then deceived the nations into thinking that he himself is the Most High, the great I Am. Which is obviously not true. During his rule Yhvh has been extremely violent oppose to Jesus that was gentle and mercyfull during his ministry. Jesus will take over and rule all nations(Rev 12:5).
Yhvh is in fact a draconian: Rev 12:9, Exo 15:8, Deut 32:22, 2 Sam 22:16, Psalm 18:8-15, Numbers 11:01, John 8:44, etc. Pinions(feathers) are also discussed.
Jesus came to rectify the works of the devil/Yhvh, He therefore repeatedly said to His followers: Moses said this … But I say that … Thus Jesus clearly distanced himself from Yhvh again and again – john 14:30.
Also see youtube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_nDUZP1E-w
and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjQQ_3xJ2lg
and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v44vqo6hE1o
Luk 8:28 says Jesus is the Son of Most High (Luk 1:32, Mat 26:31-33), He is not the Son of Yhvh.
The law given to man by Yhvh is a curse, and Jesus came to redeem man from the curse of Yhvh’s law (Gal 3:13). The letter kills, the spirit gives life (2 Corinthians 3:6). The power of sin comes from the law. (1 Cor 15). Jesus’s new covenant replaces Yhvh’s law and entire old covenant. (Heb 8:13). All things are lawful unto me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. (1 Cor 6:12).
Yhvh has been seen face to face by many, eg. Moses, Abraham, etc. In the new testament Jesus said that NO-ONE has ever seen His Father. God is spirit – John 4:24 and is omni-present, Jhvh on the other hand is a physical draconian and can only be in one place at a time.
The new number 616 isn’t new, it’s old, that’s the point. It isn’t one man’s opinion either, it’s written as such in the two oldest known versions of the Bible. The Oxyrhynchus papyrus you mention, but it’s written too in the Codex Ephraemi Rescriptus, both as a number and text – ‘hexakosiai deka hex’ literally translated as six hundred and sixteen. This latter book is the last of the four uncial manuscripts of the Greek Bible named after Ephraem the Syrian.
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Very exciting info. I personally have come across to info that describe the misuse and reversal of this type of info, much of it included on the bible, so I can coop with the idea that 616 is more of what “they meant to say” thanks for throwing it out there… good to give more to think about and promote one’s own discernment
blessings
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Unless you based your thinking on the original Aramaic you too are probably wrong. Our interpretation of 1700 year old documents based on a dead language doesn’t even translate into the king’s English. So I deem most interpretations to be speculative at best.
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The Bible was Written in Ancient Greek, the International language in those Regions, Biblical Times…and Today we ARE Living Biblical Times.
The Translations were mutilated and willfully!
The vatican is our enemy.
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I was doing some things lately then something in front of me happened, I saw the number 666 then I tried to remove it by using up some points on the thing then it turned to 616. What could this mean? I saw this at exactly 12:30AM
Reply Nicholas, 666 has no special meaning outside the context of the Beast, so it means nothing. Please research http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias for why you noticed 666 and 616.
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I had a couple questions about the conclusions concerning Prince Charles being a likely candidate to be the Antichrist. Why was his title included in the calculations that make his “name” add up to 666? Will that mean he stops being a likely candidate when/if he becomes King Charles III or whatever name he chooses to reign as? I ask because the title Prince of Wales wasn’t bestowed on him until he was 10. It seems strange to include the title in the calculations even though it is not actually a part of his name while ignoring all of his other titles then use that as evidence to support the conclusion that he’s likely to be the antichrist because his “name” adds up to 666. Curious to hear your thoughts on this if you dont mind.
Reply Brian, it’s not strange if you realize the Bible does not say “name without any title” nor have a specific term for “title.” “Name” in this case should be read as meaning what someone is identified by and not necessarily differentiated from title. Finally, consider how few people outside of Brits even are aware of these other arcane long titles for PC compared to how many throughout the world know him simply as “Prince Charles of Wales”? Given the Bible does not specify either way, it seems quite reasonable to go by the moniker by which the vast majority of the world knows a man by, yes? That was the premise Monte Judah used when he used a computer program to calculate the number for the names of world leaders and found it spit out 666 only for Prince Charles of Wales.
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12:30 = 303 the room number trinity begins the movie the matrix in Jesus died at 33 the highest degree that can be reached in Freemasonry is 33 you received Awakening from the elders 666 originally was 616 amun was the last of the 24 elders other names he go by is annu Amon Adam atum amen this y RELIGIONS say amen at the end of every prayer he is the son his father established the foundation of MONOTHEISM the worship of the sun/son, ALCHEMY his father wrote psalms and proverbs in the Bible his name is akhen-aten he was the 23 ELDER Anunnaki annu is the son naki is the father the scriptures tells you about the son the father and the holy spirit 23 = 5 hidden…… 616 becomes 666 hotep (peace)
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Albert Pike writes about the freemasons worshipping luciferian doctrine. And you know deceit from that point forward is the point. Jesus is the stone that those builders refused btw.
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